115597-people-love-to-hate-wildstar
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Many things have changed with the game in the nature of how it was going to be handled (monthly updates and all etc), can't blame people for feeling let down and disappointed. | |} ---- ---- /eyeroll Hard to believe Wildstar has a reputation for toxic community, what with this shining example of civility and poise. All MMOs get haters. There has been only one MMO that was loved across the board, and that was City of Heroes. Ironically, that love did not save the game from NCsoft's wrath and the game got killed. Shame, really. It was such a great game. | |} ---- Another CoH player! Have you heard of City of Titans? | |} ---- Yep, as well as Valiance and Heroes and Villains. I'm even one of the many volunteer Lore writers for H&V. | |} ---- Also there is serious talk COH IP might be finally sold to a third party wanting to revive the game. So keep your ears peeled :) | |} ---- ---- ---- I definatley have a different lense, for sure. I guess just in my reading of the metrics, there seems to be little bashing happening now of wildstar than or any other title. Maybe your right, maybe we are on the verge of all that dying down. I mean after all people will get bored and move on from the hate train eventually. Maybe Archage is next. who know :P | |} ---- ---- ---- See, THIS is problem for hate. Just because Human has issue with game and not able to enjoy it, not mean game is bad. Also calling out others are bad at game brings: NOTHING. Generalizing own failures or limitations with rest of population is pointless and makes Human look silly. | |} ---- ---- ---- You are not getting the message AT ALL. None of us are saying the game is FINE. We all know there are problems. The point we are trying to get across is that these changes take time. Guymn999 expresses it perfectly. We encounter the same problems, except we're the ones being reasonable about it and actually understand that these things take time to fix. There is no such thing as bug-free Software or the perfect MMO. Carbine admitted they made mistakes. That alone is enough for me to keep playing and wait for fixes. They talk, they listen and they fix. But those people everywhere with their doom scenario's expect these things to be fixed yesterday. MMO's and many games don't get their design flaws revealed until a multitude of people actually consume the content. You can test in advance, but there's only so much your testing will reveal. And if you cannot understand this, or have the patience to actually wait for these things to get fixed, then perhaps indeed MMORPG games are simply not for you. and +1 for getting me to write in Orange. moderator edit: content Edited October 10, 2014 by Chillia | |} ---- ---- That's a moot question, because there's no such thing as "getting it right". The Gaming market is by far the most impossible market to please or "get right", and that's coming from someone who works in the industry for several years. This market changes faster then the day&night cycle. All you can do is bring something out, get feedback and adapt. And that's exactly what Carbine is doing. They are listening, adapting and making changes to the game. Unfortunately this takes time. And "basic systems" is also a subjective approach. What you consider basic, might be totally obsolete or unneeded for someone else. So really, what do you want to hear? or what are you even aiming at. | |} ---- caught that before my edit, look im sorry i wasted your time, i dont dislike you as a person, or carbine as a company, wildstar as a game, NCsoft as a publisher. im jusr sad and frustrated that such a glorious IP might not see its full day in the sun and i DONT PUT THAT ON CARBINE the reason it seems i have a personal vandetta agaisnt you chua is becuase you are the most noticeable poster of the "its ok its fine" crew im upset that perhaps the early feedback that could have prevented the outcome were seeing could have been prevented if people of your opinion werent so outspoken or perhaps unjustly listened too. i dont dislike you personally or anyone , honestly its the internet, theres no time for that i just think that if perhaps some of the early "not so popular" opinions hadnt been shouted down by you and your ilke wed be in a better place i fully agree that may just be blame shifting, wishful thinking i dont dislike you chua, i dislike the school of though you originally associtiated yourself with. and it appears to be a school of thought that still to this day runs this board i tried to delete the post but you caught it bottom line, i think Wildstar was a great idea, and could have been a great game. but hearing so many "ya ya ya awesomes" and tuning out the "hold on a minute heres" killed it this is my last post, sorry for being long, wish yall luck in the future, cheers | |} ---- Except you're wrong on some of your perceptions. Me being the most noticeable poster of "it's ok, it's fine"? Yes, when it actually is. But I'll also be the first one to call out on Carbine and Moderators and other posters when it's NOT okay. Happy to show you my warning points for that. The point is that the "early feedback" in many cases was not justified and only came across as crying because content was too hard. The game is out for three months and people were asking to already nerf stuff into the ground because they were forced, yes forced, to actually think about what they were doing and god forbid, actually work together and communicate with other people in an online game. The "oldschool" train of thought, is what made many of the games like SWG, EQ, UO great. Because those games gave your challenges and felt like an accomplishment. Sure, they also had problems with bugs, grinds and ridiculous timesinks, just like WildStar has. People also seemed to be comparing it a lot to World Of Warcraft. Yes, I played WoW for nearly 10 years, yes I enjoyed the game for almost 8 years. Would I go back to the game? No. Will I be the first to admit that WoW made me a lazy player and that I sometimes don't have patience anymore for content: yes And that's the exact problem. People have been used to WoW "standards" for almost 10 years because no game actually stood up to challenging these standards. Second point is that in all honesty, people don't know what they want. They will first scream they want A, then they want B, but actually they ment C, but when given C they either want D or A again. Which is also what I pointed out in my previous posts, this market is impossible to please because they simply do not know what they want. | |} ---- This is a very important statement and carbine needs to keep it in mind. People don't know whether they wanted something or not until it's sitting hot on a plate in front of them. There seems to be a large shift in design to "do what people want!" and the people who say what they want are the people who do little besides talk about what they want, dream up their dreams, and move on or change their minds before anyone has a chance to realize them. People do know what they have already disliked, and what they have already liked, but their tastes change fast enough that its hard to know. the best any game designer can really do is to make something that they know is great within their vision, and pray that there's a market for it. - Now: Why do I think people hate Wildstar? I would have to hate wildstar to enjoy any other game, because there are things about wildstar that are so much better than other games that you can only ignore if you hate the game. Not everybody is me, so thats not true for everyone, but that is one of the reasons. | |} ---- ---- A little realism in here, before you start blaming anyone that's advised people to have manners, and post things in a clear and constructive fashion.... First off, Beta players had Carbines ear. And if they did their job, and lets be very honest here... beta is a job, then they submitted thousands upon thousands of bug reports, and feedback about the game. Carbine had to make difficult decisions about what was feasible to change prior to an internal release date, and what was not. They made the changes they could, and hoped for the best. Especially in terms of the way the release would be treated and how much time they might have to address bugs. They miscalculated. They screwed up. They compounded that by attempting a massively aggressive content release schedule, without having the amount of QA needed to support what they wanted to do. Again, they screwed up. By the second drop they had glaringly obvious problems. RNG, Rune slots, Bugs. And they made a choice. They opted to drop the aggressive content schedule and replace it with something that would allow them to make use of the amount of staff they were able to support. Then they set about trying to overhaul aspects of the game, while trying to address every bug that could be reproduced. Now. Heres the reality part for you. It takes time. Its not going to happen overnight. I realize that you think its everyone's fault that ever said a kind word about Carbine. That ever defended the developers of this game as if *gasp* they were actual living, human beings worthy of the simple common courtesy you would expect of anyone in any form of communication with you. But it's not. It was an overly ambitious schedule, and a mistake. And yes, carbine owned up to it. It happens. People get excited, they take on a project with what seems like a completely feasible timeline, only to find out that its not feasible, they don't have the resources necessary to pull it off, and they are in a bit of a spot. So you do what really don't want to do. Own up to it. And turn around and work your ass off to make it right. And that's what they did. The school of thought that a lot of us seem to have is.... more mature than many of you seem capable of. You present your problems, your thoughts, and your ideas in a constructive, well thought out post. You find people that have had similar experiences, and you collaborate with them to suggest solutions to those problems. You leave your flame wars, and your insults at home, because they are completely counter productive. And then you wait. Yes, I realize that's difficult. But in this case its all you can do. Because the developers need time to do the work. To fix it. Regardless of whether you think it should have been addressed sooner, it wasn't. It is what it is. And know they are working in a new direction. You give them time to actually do that, and then you decide if the new direction is something you want to follow. You think Wildstar was a great idea. I still think it is. You think its a school of thought that runs this board, yes it is. Its called common courtesy and respect. Even if something horrific and bad happens. Because ultimately this is a video game, the moderators and developers are people, and it isn't that hard to take time to cool off before you vent your anger on someone in text form. If you really are that ready to give up. Then give up. Nobody is forcing anyone to be here. Or to play this game. Its entertainment. And I'm not willing to textually eviscerate the developers because of a rocky couple of months. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I tend to dissagree, im a old school vanilla wow player, and this game i feel was designed for me. I have just as many issues trying to get into this game. The content is great the ip is great, but the execution is a bit off. I feel like this game was designed for my 16 year old self, not my now 27 year old self. I have less time and more commitments, im just as keen to play hard content, but i no longer have the time to wade through archaic and time consuming systems to get there. I think Carbine has the right idea, i just think they need to work on accessibilty and micro content, while keeping the quality and breadth of content they already have. I dont think its as simple as blaming the newer generations, becuase frankly most of them didnt buy the game becuase its subscription based. I think Carbine underestimated its audiences changing needs, and now its adjusting accordingly. | |} ---- I don't mind the white knights here. They don't have the power to downvote things that go against the hive mind, so the conversations stay lively. But, again, haters gonna hate. WS isn't a special target, it's just an MMO that exists on Planet Earth, where some people are dicks. | |} ---- I actually think this sums it up a good chunk of it... The other thing is that I'm finding more people are finding themselves being hit by their own lack of socializing and just...not being a jerkface as my niece put it. Wildstar is inherently challenging and in some cases one could argue punishing to a degree that not a lot of MMOs have gone. Even TERA really(especially if you're a lancer tank lol) is incredibly easy(least to me) A good guild and circle go a LONG way even if it's a small one. I feel like in Wildstar actually having a guild or circle that not only serves as a social grouping but a genuine environment that offers a place for people to learn, have fun, and just enjoy the game together s essential to progression and that aspect is what hit people the most. I love my guild because it's an environment that if someone *cupcake*s up no ones angry, flipping their keyboard, or calling eachother bad players, but rather coming up with "hey what if we tried X instead" until we get better. I'm not saying that the content shouldn't be more accessible and I think the access is now at a good point( and honestly feel like if it had been the way it is now at release we'd be in a better state), but difficult content can be a tad frustrating and I feel like people who hate the game are more so people that unfortunately had poor guilds that added to that frustration with negativity, went in to pugs expecting to gold everything, or are just angry people that rage when things don't go their way. IF anything I will say that those who felt Wildstar was too much for them like the pacing, combat, or challenge that I know of personally simply bowed out and left silently or gracefully. I have no issues with them at all...however I think that having more "casual" and slower activities at the end would've probably been nice for those people. That's just my view on it all... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I see this line of bull@#&* stated a couple of times from several people in this thread. Prove that most of the hate is coming from WOW players, a lot of the reddit and other third party sites that have turned against wildstar are the same fanboys that were attacking ESO and what not and talking about how awesome Wildstar was going to be in BETA and one month into release. The game aimed at the hardcore crowd and the true hardcore crowd of what there is not much left in this game are mostly douches. | |} ---- It leads to great dissonance. This game is seen by those outside it as a game only for hardcore raiders, one focues exclusively around these massive raids. Anyone in the game knows there's only one 40 man and one 20 man raid, the rest is all fairly casual stuff save for the difficulty. But you see so many people outside the game jump on it for its raiding focus that you see it bleed into the forums. If any other game had said they only had two raids at launch and hadn't released a new one in four months, nobody would call that a game for hardcore raiders. So a lot of the hate comes from this really weird perception of the game that doesn't have a lot of correlation with the reality of the game. If anything, this game is a casual paradise; housing is its best feature and everything EXCEPT the raids can be pugged. You've got far more shiphand missions (variable size instances) than raids. The combat is fast and fun but requires very little upfront preparation; it doesn't have EVE level fitting. Yet the game sucks, because Carbine obviously spends way too much time focusing on these hardcore raiders.... Public opinion is weird like that. I can't say anything though, I took people at their word that this was a WoW clone and didn't even give it a chance until they mailed me an open beta invite. Public opinion is a powerful thing, if not an accurate thing. | |} ---- To be fair, how many MMORPG players weren't WoW players? This perception's not coming from nowhere. I wouldn't say the hate all comes from WoW players, but Wildstar suffers from being assumed to be like WoW when the two share very few elements, especially anymore. | |} ---- ---- You didn't even try to quote me correctly. I stated that i'm talking of "people around me". And i still keep hearing lines like: - "Game is shit, i go back to WoW" - "My WoW friends told me that the game is shit, so i don't even try it myself" ...and so on. Don't you think that this certain group of players might be a little too biased? | |} ---- ---- : ) well done. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ^This, this this!!! And my opinion regarding the extreme hatred (which I see most of it is from WoW players posting on FB. Which btw, I refuse to read the comments anymore so as not to get sucked into arguing with them), stems from the fact that some of WildStar's creators are in fact ex-WoW creators. Just that fact alone would rile up any devoted MMO fan whose finds out their game developers/creators left their favorite game to create a new one. And sees these same developers bragging about how this is a "hardcore game" (meaning the "other" wasn't) and tab-targeting is for lazy people (again meaning "other" game is lazy) requiring real skills to play with telegraphs (basically "other" game has no skill). So imo, just those alone sparked a feud war. | |} ---- This is precisely why. The game has not met the expectations from early reviews. End game content is almost non-existent and the content that is there happens to be extremely buggy (raids). Though Carbine is addressing this issue, a lot of people have the attitude of "Too little, too late." I'm waiting out to see if that quote is true or not. However, I understand the complaints. | |} ---- Only thing i hate about wildstar, is how the class DEVS ignore the community, no communication from them at all and the way classea are right now is bad, and there is no communication about what the class devs are trying to do with the classes, specifically warriors and medics, they post there little update and then it's like okay F the community concerns i don't got time to read or reply to them, so i can see people hating the class devs to be honest, other then that i think the rest of the devs are doing fine. | |} ---- I think there is more endgame in wildstar than in alot of mmo's currently around right now. So i think that is a false statment, the real issue is the execution of the content, making it hard or not fun to play. | |} ---- ----